Demanding respect?

Something came up in game today that made me think about how we deal with those smaller than us so I thought it would be good to put it people here.

We all have to face the fact that the land has been the quietest its been in a very long time. I have been around before when things have gone dead like this and it normally picks up eventually.

With new players coming into First Age we all will eventually have to deal with them and show them the lay of the land. I know this can be tedious and time consuming but we all will have to chip in. There are very few of us left who have been around a very long time and we will depend on new talent to reinvigorate the land as well as ourselves.

We ALL need to take a step back when dealing with those smaller than ourselves and don't expect that they should treat us with awe or respect just because we have been around for a while. I am a firm believer in earning respect before expecting it. Yes it can get annoying when someone smaller or younger than you talks down to you because they might have been in an order, city or profession longer than you but thats a part of life.

If you find that someone younger than you is being disrespectful then report them to their Guildmaster, Baron or Patron and let them deal with it. I don't see the need in hounding an LW to 'teach' them that they are being disrespectful. How on earth do you expect them to learn respect for you if you carry on like this?

We need people in the land at the moment and we can't afford to be driving people out because we feel the need to demand respect. We should all have a bit of patience and learn to deal with issues like this in an more proactive manner.

When we have a full land once again we can always go back to just killing them if they annoy us but just be prepared for what comes of killing an LW.

Thorongil wrote:

If you find that someone younger than you is being disrespectful then report them to their Guildmaster, Baron or Patron and let them deal with it. I don't see the need in hounding an LW to 'teach' them that they are being disrespectful. How on earth do you expect them to learn respect for you if you carry on like this?

We need people in the land at the moment and we can't afford to be driving people out because we feel the need to demand respect. We should all have a bit of patience and learn to deal with issues like this in an more proactive manner.

When we have a full land once again we can always go back to just killing them if they annoy us but just be prepared for what comes of killing an LW.

You are reacting to an incident in which I am involved, and this is not what happened. On the hypothetical issue you raise, I agree with you pretty much point by point. However, this is not what happened in game. If you are really interested in discussing it, and not fighting about it and lecturing all the time, I'm happy to discuss it with you. (I do respect your knowledge and experience.) I am also happy to relate to you how I really treat LW's, not just the complaint by your second.

I'm done listening to you Bodhin. I'm fed up of idiots spreading rubbish about this and that person being seconds of mine. When people like you start spreading false rumours then you are directing people animosity towards me onto them and I would not wish that on anyone. If someone gets fed up of how you talk down to them it does not mean that they are seconds of mine. If this were the case you could consider most of the Mage guild seconds of mine.

From now on I will no longer deal with you. You can look to other sources for information to what is going on in the realm or profession. I will share any new knowledge about guild skills with members of the Mage guild and you can carry on being the lone ranger of the Enchanters Guild.

Hey, J.J. -- are you in there? The real person, not the character in game. This is Al -- not Bodhin, but Al, a real person. Can I talk to the real person please?

Although you have admitted to using seconds, and your seconds behave in similar ways that Thorongil does, I'll drop it for our purposes here.

At first I thought you were trying to stir up some in-character rivalry to make the game more interesting. Now it seems clear to me that we have out-of-character tension.

You don't like lies and rumors and being spread about your character. OK. Can you understand that I don't like it, either? What you and that other character (whoever he really is) wrote about my character is false. Your own accusation that I have been "policing" idlers is completely made up. Giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, the thing with Gareth is a misunderstanding.

You want to talk about what drives people away from the game. I previously said that I actually agree with what you wrote above -- yet I denied that my character had done those things.

Along with treating LW's with courtesy, how about older players treating each other with courtesy? You are exhibiting, both on this forum and in the game, the kind of out-of-character anger issues and harassment that I have occasionally witnessed with other players. (At least when Zooka went RL berserk, it was usually alcohol related. I get the impression you are sober.)

We are adults and we play Avalon to have a good time. Time and again, instead of issuing challenges and using combat to work out that competitive impulse, you turn to long posts blasting other players. (Who could forget your epic resignation post on the public BB when you claimed that everyone who continued to play Avalon were ignoring their real lives?)

J.J., it is only a game. This is supposed to be fun. Good on you for reminding us to treat LW's well so that they have fun and stay. You are right about that. But your own behavior is not good for you nor is it good for the game. It is tiresome to pay for the pleasure of being called an idiot by other players who cannot distinguish role play from their own real lives. (This is an issue you have complained about yourself, ironically.) I pay, while a certain player(s) use falsehoods to attempt to make trouble for me with the game's administrators. Why? Why?

So now I have to make the decision. Do I let this kind of behavior drive me away from the game? Or do I put up with it? Probably, since my only purpose here is to enjoy the RP and the occasional combat, it leads to another long hiatus. This OOC shit is really bad for the game. You want to lecture others about what is best for the game, but historically I have never seen evidence -- and there have been plenty of complaints about you, from the god players to the mortal players -- never have I seen evidence that you reflect on your own behavior in the game, the problems it has created for your main character, and the nuisance it poses for other players.

So start with yourself, J.J. Keep the game in perspective.

I'm not going to stick my head into whatever personal business this has become but I did find the topic of some interest. Us older players should be banding together to help the new players out, give them reason and encouragement to stick around. As most of you probably know, I am not much of a fighter. I lazy around mostly stuck to my stone. However, in those moments of busy work, I am constantly in touch with the who list and when new players are around. As much as possible, I try to say hello to them at the very least and let them know how to get in touch with me if they have any questions.

So here are perhaps a few suggestions we should all keep in mind when potential newbies are about:
- Say hello!
- Offer help or ask if they have any questions.
- Promote this forum - I usually send newbies a msg with a link to this forum in case they feel like browsing and reading a little more about us. You'd be surprised how many newbies I've seen pop up around here and ask a random question.
- Go to their location and show off a bit. Newbies are slightly more wow-ed by the little things - you'd be amazed at the response you will get from going invisible.
- Keep novicewatch on. It's a good way to tell when newbies are in need of help, and it's also a good way to tell when they have real potential or not. Also good for personal amusement.
- Treat them with the respect you want in return. Though no one likes to be disrespected, it is true that we are in desperate times and will take what we can get. Sometimes the better man is the one that can suck it up and shut it up.
- For those that have graduated from college, offer guild advice. Offer to teach them quests, buy them something useful (a pack, a potion, pipes, etc.), show them how to earn a little gold.
- For those that are clearly sticking around, teach them how to get a city quest.

I think also it is worth while for people to be aware of any bugs that are floating around which might prevent NNW's from completing their accolades. The most recent ones were people not being able to greet Theacrus or being able to finish giving the note to Iorwenn. If we see people having problems with these then we should go help them complete this accolade until it is fixed.

One strange thing I have noticed since the realm had its little break down and we could not get on for a few days is that I have not seen one NNW in the realm. I think the problem with the PLAY tab is directing people to Legends still but this has been like that since before the breakdown so maybe it is something else. I may be wrong and maybe they are popping on when Im gone. Just something to keep an eye out for.

Good point about being familiar with the bugs...

That is an interesting noticing. I too have not seen any nnw since the realm got turned back on. Before the down time, I had noticed a good number of them though - and the PLAY button had been directing to Legends at that point in time already, so not sure what the deal is there. Really unfair though... Converting our potential prey to legends before they even have a chance... *sniffle*